Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

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Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Stanny » Sun May 26, 2013 5:38 am

First here a link:
http://www.vario-helicopter.biz/us1/product_info.php?products_id=101601

I'm wondering or it is really that trustworthy to use the starwood rotorhead on the much bigger vario lama. Vario claims they tested it and now problems were found. Another issue is the size of the head, will it still be 'correctly scaled' if used on the vario lama?

Would you guys do the change-over and use this rotorhead on the big vario lama?

I'm looking for opinions before i order this one in an uncontrolled hurry :-)

Regards from belgium
Stijn


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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Totto » Sun May 26, 2013 7:50 am

Hello Stijn

I am testing out this Starwood Vario rotorhead on my turbine Vario Alouette 3 and so far it looks good. The A3 is a bit heavier than the Vario Lama – not much so I have taken the chance testing it. So far so good. If all will be ok on the furthermore testing I will install it on my Vario Lama as well.

The head looks good and feels good. Very solid pushrods/ball links etc. Compared to the original Vario ball links on both the Lama and Alouette systems I like the new overall much better. Swashplate and follower ok. Very easy install. I just made the 3 pushrods from the swashplate to the bladegrip a bit shorter. I am using the blades that is Lama / Alouette 3 standard.

Here is a video of the first / second hovertesting. I have not really flown it yet.
The head is in combination with the Helicommand Rigid. Lower settings than default.

http://www.youtube.com/v/-nqkU8XG ... r_embedded
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Stanny » Sun May 26, 2013 9:12 am

Thank you for your fast and clear reply. Just one question about the size: do you think it will fit the lama in terms of scale size? I really do not want to have a rotorhead that looks too small... The other option I have is the rotorhead from helifactory in germany, but this one costs double and I really can not pull myself over the hedge to spend that much money on a rotorhead. It is almost the price of a new heli :-)


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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Stanny » Sun May 26, 2013 9:12 am

Thank you for your fast and clear reply. Just one question about the size: do you think it will fit the lama in terms of scale size? I really do not want to have a rotorhead that looks too small... The other option I have is the rotorhead from helifactory in germany, but this one costs double and I really can not pull myself over the hedge to spend that much money on a rotorhead. It is almost the price of a new heli :-)


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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Héli Suisse » Sun May 26, 2013 9:35 am

The other option I have is the rotorhead from helifactory in germany,

And nothing says that the Helifactory head will be flying that good compared to the Starwood one which flies great on Peter's video.
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Peter » Sun May 26, 2013 11:03 pm

The Starwood head is made in Hong Kong like the rest of the helicopter. I spent a lot of time last year sorting out the flying characteristics of this head and I do not know what configuration Vario has in the one they are selling, so i cannot guess how well it would fly with a different headspeed and different weight under it.

It is about the right size for the Vario big Lama. The Vario Lama is so "non scale" it will not matter if it is slightly wrong.

I tried the Helifactory one on my Alouette 3 and it did not fly well.
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Totto » Sun May 26, 2013 11:33 pm

I'm wondering or it is really that trustworthy to use the starwood rotorhead on the much bigger vario lama. Vario claims they tested it and now problems were found. Another issue is the size of the head, will it still be 'correctly scaled' if used on the vario lama?
Would you guys do the change-over and use this rotorhead on the big vario lama?


When Vario says the following on their site regarding this head:
Lama Scale Rotorhead: for the large Vario Lama We have now finalized our tests with the Starwood Lama scale rotorhead
on the Vario Lama 1:4. Now we are proud to present to you under the Ord.No. 703/39, a truly Scale rotor head including all necessary parts in
order to mount this head on the Vario Lama.


I don’t know how Vario tests their rotorheads, but it would surprice me if the tests is just out flying them like I do with the Alouette 3. I would believe that they both fly them to the limit and hard. Also they might have a testfacility/testbox (rotor spinning a long time with low and high loads) to see the breaking point of them.
If they say now that this Starwood scalehead has finalezed their tests on their Lama then the customer should trust this and the head will be fine.
If my test with flying the Alouette 3 which is heavier than the Lama, then a new order for the Lama will be done for sure.

Just one question about the size: do you think it will fit the lama in terms of scale size?

Well, I personally think it looks quite ok for my use (see pic). Absolutely the best looking “scalehead” compared with the original 3 blade heads for both Vario Lama and Alouette 3.
(I have both of the head types and I don’t like them at all)
The Helifactory’s scale heads for Lama and Alouette 3 is very nice. Probably the best and perhaps the safest who knows. The price of the head should state best quality I would say, but how it feels and flies I cannot say.
A3Rotor.JPG
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Totto

My web: http://www.tottoshobby.net

Present project:
Airworld Yak 11 1:3,35 Moki 250

Turbine projects done:
Vario Bell 205 Huey UH-1H / JetCat PHT3-3
Vario Alouette III / Jakadofsky Pro 5000
Heliclassics.de Mil Mi 24 Hind / Pahl GPH-70
Vario Lama / Jakadofsky Pro Edition
Graupner NH-90 / JetCat PHT-3
PowerCat / JetCat PHT-3
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Héli Suisse » Mon May 27, 2013 12:18 am

I tried the Helifactory one on my Alouette 3 and it did not fly well.

Thank you Peter for that clarification.
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Paulsheli63 » Mon May 27, 2013 1:04 am

Peter wrote:I tried the Helifactory one on my Alouette 3 and it did not fly well.


Wow, for $2586.00 U.S one would think it would fly like a dream.

Paul
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Totto » Mon May 27, 2013 1:14 am

Peter :
I tried the Helifactory one on my Alouette 3 and it did not fly well.


That is strange because videos of the Helifactory head both on Lama and Alouette 3 seems to fly very well
in my eyes.

A3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... xPSLa6Up5Q

Lama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 3176FUpmfM

Videos from their website http://www.helifactory.com/videos/index.php
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Totto

My web: http://www.tottoshobby.net

Present project:
Airworld Yak 11 1:3,35 Moki 250

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Vario Bell 205 Huey UH-1H / JetCat PHT3-3
Vario Alouette III / Jakadofsky Pro 5000
Heliclassics.de Mil Mi 24 Hind / Pahl GPH-70
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Graupner NH-90 / JetCat PHT-3
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Peter » Mon May 27, 2013 1:33 am

My first flight with that head was terrifying and it was only a 6" hover at Jacksonville. There was no stabilization on the head and the helicopter was all over the place. I think the combination of weight and head needed a lot more tuning and I was not prepared to risk my helicopter to develop it.

By contrast, my Mil 2 with the Vario 3 blade head flew nicely with no stab, but briefly, before a link came off.

By far the bets rotor head from both a scale point of view and flying, is the Hirobo Big Lama head which has both lead lag damping and flapping damping in the correct scale manner and has 2 bolt blades.

I don’t know how Vario tests their rotorheads, but it would surprice me if the tests is just out flying them like I do with the Alouette 3. I would believe that they both fly them to the limit and hard. Also they might have a testfacility/testbox (rotor spinning a long time with low and high loads) to see the breaking point of them.


Totto I think you give Vario more credit than they are due. I would imagine that they put the head on a model and get one of their pilots to fly it, adjusting it to suit the model and his style of flying. The Starwood head needed a lot of tuning on the Starwood Lama to make it fly nicely and as the headspeed and blade size is different on the A3 and the Big Vario Lama, I would expect they have had to make some changes there as well.

As the late and much missed Al Wert sold these models for some time, he did most of the development work with the manufacturer and there are many turbine Lamas flying around which he sold, and the ones I have seen fly well. The latest versions of them do no not fly so well and it has taken Joe and I some time to isolate the problem and get it sorted out. Now they fly like my electric one.

Once we got the problem sorted and went back to the manufacturer and ask for the modifications to be incorporated in the next delivery, it seems Vario has solved their problems at the same time. What a coincidence :blink:
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby gonzalom » Mon May 27, 2013 3:38 am

Thanks Totto for the video! I am contemplating putting the new rotor head on my Lama but what is preventing me to do so is that the original head is flying so well with the Vbar Silverline in my case. Please let us know your results in forward flight how it goes. Are you using metal blades? And by the way the A3 it's looking stunning!

I wish you live a little bit closer to fly with you!

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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Stanny » Mon May 27, 2013 10:57 am

Nice seeing so many replies!

Is there a picture or link for the hirobo head?

Thanks!


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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Totto » Mon May 27, 2013 8:55 pm

My first flight with that head was terrifying and it was only a 6" hover at Jacksonville. There was no stabilization on the head and the helicopter was all over the place.

Hello Peter,
Ok, I understand how terrifying that could be. Probably they have also done some modification since you got yours.
By contrast, my Mil 2 with the Vario 3 blade head flew nicely with no stab, but briefly, before a link came off.

Yes, i remember you mentioned that. Its really to bad. They could have done some better link system i think. I like very much those new links on the new Vario head.
By far the bets rotor head from both a scale point of view and flying, is the Hirobo Big Lama head which has both lead lag damping and flapping damping in the correct scale manner and has 2 bolt blades.

Have seen it and sure looks fine. Do you get it from Hirobo shop where ?
I think you give Vario more credit than they are due

Regarding testing of the rotorheads at Vario….Well, if that is the case then I am a bit surprised. Its dangerous stuff if not tested properly. Would be really interesting to really hear how they do the tests.
As the late and much missed Al Wert sold these models for some time, he did most of the development work with the manufacturer and there are many turbine Lamas flying around which he sold, and the ones I have seen fly well. The latest versions of them do no not fly so well and it has taken Joe and I some time to isolate the problem and get it sorted out. Now they fly like my electric one.

This head from Starwood that now Vario sells seems to have gone through some major changements. I got from the gentleman Mr Al Wert (I am sure many of you miss him a lot) this head system when he offered it on his website 1,5-2 years back ? not really sure time running…. but, when I got it and looked at different things I desided to send it back to him. My plan was to use it on my Lama. That was completely ok for him. He did great service Mr Wert.

Its now a completely different head system that i got.

Once we got the problem sorted and went back to the manufacturer and ask for the modifications to be incorporated in the next delivery, it seems Vario has solved their problems at the same time. What a coincidence

Hmm...sure is.




Are you using metal blades?

Hello Gonzalo,
Thanks, I am using the original standard Vario blades for the Lama/A3 – not metal. Sure will be informing how it goes in further testing intervals. Hope it will be ok. It feels very good actually and I like the overall system now. Will be interesting to see how it works in forward flight etc.
Would have been great to fly with you guys too ! It’s a big atlantic ocean between us.
Regards
Totto

My web: http://www.tottoshobby.net

Present project:
Airworld Yak 11 1:3,35 Moki 250

Turbine projects done:
Vario Bell 205 Huey UH-1H / JetCat PHT3-3
Vario Alouette III / Jakadofsky Pro 5000
Heliclassics.de Mil Mi 24 Hind / Pahl GPH-70
Vario Lama / Jakadofsky Pro Edition
Graupner NH-90 / JetCat PHT-3
PowerCat / JetCat PHT-3
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Peter » Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 pm

I have several of these superb Hirobo rotor heads which I seem to have acquired over the years. I might even sell one, but the problem with them is that they have to use the Hirobo blades which are 950mm long. If that doesn't work with your helicopter, then there is no alternative.

I have been flying my Hirobo Lama for over 10 years now and anyone who has seen me flying it knows it flies as well, if not better than the Starwood one with an SAS. The Hirobo one needs no SAS to fly great.

I'll take a picture of one of the heads a little later on today and post it here.
Peter Wales in sunny Orlando
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Peter » Tue May 28, 2013 12:41 am

This is the Hirobo head as promised
Image
Image

The lead/lag dampers do work as do the flapping dampers which are in the hub. The dampers are perfectly matched to the blades which is what makes them fly so well. I think the combination of the head and blades is too big for the Starwood Lama and too small for the Vario Lama but my plan is to try one of the heads I have on the Starwood lama and see how it flies.
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby teamdavey » Tue May 28, 2013 5:41 am

Peter,

Intrigued to know what changes you had made to the Starwood head?

Regards,

Jim Davey
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby fredd » Wed May 29, 2013 4:33 am

And then there is the XXL one which is very solid and flies well on my Lama.
http://www.xxl-modellhelicopter.com/XXL ... _Lama.html
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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Stanny » Fri May 31, 2013 5:59 am

And in the end I have to keep my normal vario head... My gas powered lama is turning in the other direction in comparison with the turbine version. So the head of helifactory, starwood or helitech will not work as they are made for the direction of the turbine lama version...


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Re: Starwood rotorhead for vario lama

Postby Dr.Tim » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:04 am

I flew the Starwood Head first on my Oddyssey then my Starwood Lama .. It took very Little tuning and flew Great!
What was done to the head that needed changing?
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.. Http://www.ApproachEngineering.com .. Wood is Good!!
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