MD530F .50 Scale Build Thread

[Red-Rx7]

Well, I am moving forward on my .50 size MD530F build!

To start, I have purchased a Raptor 50 Titan and the Thunder Tiger MD530 fuse kit. Hopefully, both will be here early next week.

I have already picked out the MD530F that I want to model it against, and I am currently working with that police department to obtain detailed photos to make the exterior very detailed ... down to the rivet pattern. Next week as I get more photos, I will post the picture of the real bird.

My goal with this build is similar to how Rodan built his TTMD530; applying near super-scale detail to the exterior of the helicopter. While this is a smaller scale than many .90 or gasser size, it doesn't mean I cant provide the same exterior scaling detail needed.

I do have some outstanding questions about some conversion pieces, and would appreciate some feedback regarding that topic. As mentioned, I am using the Raptor 50 Titan mechanics for this build. Yet, I want to use a scale 5 Blade head. I have seen only two viable options at this point: OF Head or a Century DIAMOND 5 BLADE head. Regardless of the head, I would still need to convert the Raptor to a CCPM setup to run a non-fly bar multi-blade head -- correct?

This is where I am at a fork in the road, and would appreciate some feedback. In looking at the options out there, I seem to very limited on the CCPM conversion. I have found the following sources:

- TTPacks.com: Looks like it would work well, and the limited threads I have read seem to give decent reviews; but part availability seems to be in question. I have an email outstanding with them regarding the parts.

One other concern is the additional space it may take up. As seen here, TTPACKS CCPM Conversion, it places the servos near the main shaft which makes the mechanics protrude further out than normal. Anyone with an TT MD530, could you possibly take pictures of the available space around the placement of these servos with the fuse mounted?

- MTA Raptor CCPM: I haven't found any good pictures of this kit installed, other than this one: PICTURE. I also haven't heard any real reviews for this conversion, and notice this one still uses the factory Raptor servo tray. I was some-what interested in not having to use this, so I could have additional room for a potential 1/2 cockpit within the MD530.

- Xero G CCPM: Looks like an ideal solution, at the cost of your first born baby. At 380.00 + Shipping, I could have purchased a whole new mechanics set. I don't see this being a real option here...

- Does anyone have any other solutions??

Thanks!
Mike

[Rodan]

Actually, for a multiblade head, you are better off not converting it to eCCPM. With the distinct aileron and elevator servo functions (i.e., they are not mixed as on eCCPM), you can simply add gyros to each axis for stabilization, and you won't need a special mixer (like the Helitronix) to do so. You will have to do the blade phasing manually without a mixer, but that shouldn't be too difficult....

Generally the reason for eCCPM (in scale helis, anyway) is compactness, but that's not an issue with the Raptor/TT MD530 combo.

[Red-Rx7]

Thanks for the reply Chris!

I have also just ordered the Century Diamond 5 Blade Multi-Rotor Head:



The custom fitted 5-Blade Swash:


And the follower:

[Christopher J]

Awsome!! Looking foward to following this build as you progress.

[lrogers]

I'm planning on getting the same head for my Sea King project. I'd certainly appreciate your take on the head (quality and flying charactieristics).

If things work out well with the Sea King, I may go back and that head to my H500D.

[Red-Rx7]

Chris J,

Thanks! I am excited for the build as well, and have to think out a few more electronic pieces. One debate running in my head is if I should run two additional GY401's, or use the HeliCommand unit. I am still trying to formulate some outstanding questions for both setups, and hope to articulate them soon.

Larry,

I should receive it all by the end of next week. Electronics permitting (Gyro/HeliCommand unit), I could have a flyable MD530 by next weekend. I would be happy to take detailed pictures and such to show you any slop or whatever feedback regarding this head unit.

My goal is to get everything fitted for an initial "out-of-the-box" run, then remove the body so I can start the preparation of transforming it from the gel-coat green to an actual model of the real thing.

I should have all of the detailed pictures by the end of weekend, but here is a preview of the helicopter:



More to come!

[lrogers]

Thanks Mike!
I know what you mean about the electronics set up. I'm still trying to decide which way to go with that myself. One gyro, two gyro's, no gyro's, which gyro.......it's a mess of stuff to sort out. Guess everyone that builds his/her first multi-blade head model suffers through it!

[Joel Rosenzweig]

If you choose to go mechanical mixing (non CCPM) with the multi-bladed head, then you don't get the benefits of having a 3 (or 4) servos working together to move your swash plate around. When spinning 5 blades around, you are making that single poor servo work a lot harder than if it had the help of 2 others. You may get a sloppier control response. I'm not sure that is all that helpful, especially if you are going to try to use gyros to help improve the flying characteristics. I think you'd want the minimum slop you could get.

While mechanically mixing will help you add gyros without the need for a mixer, you will still have to phase the head. Depending on your head, the phasing with 5 blades can get out of hand. It depends on the geometry of your head and swashplate. Mechanical phasing a 3 or 4 bladed head is generally ok, but 5 gets a little tricky because of the extreme angles of the pushrods. If your radio supports phasing, you might want to use some phasing from the radio + mechanical phasing to make up the difference.

Joel-

[lynxman]

A nice benefit with 120° eCCPM is that you get more flexibility with regards to phase adjustment. The pitch links don't have to be angled to align the swashplate because you have the ability to adjust the bottom swash plate phase in 6 steps by just alternating the servo connectors.

[Red-Rx7]

Joel & Lynx,

Thank you both for your input.

I currently have JR DS811 servos (54oz, .18 speed). If I remain a mCCPM setup, would a more powerful servo overcome the potential slop issues?

An example:


Type: Ultra Speed Heli Cyclic Servo
Torque: 160 oz/in @ 4.8V; 196 oz/in @ 6V
Speed: .09 sec/60° @ 4.8V, .07 sec/60° @ 6V
Dimensions (WxLxH): .83" x 1.59" x 1.57"
Weight: 2.36 oz
Gears: Metal

Running at the normal 4.8v, this servo has 3 times the amount of torque, and is .09 seconds/60° faster. Do you think running these would counter any negative impact I may have from the increased load of the 5-Blade head?

Thanks,
Mike

[Rodan]

I would not use the 811s in a heli... save them for a plank. The 8717s are great, but they are pricey... 9252 Futabas work very well and are a little cheaper.

[Red-Rx7]

Thanks for the responses again.

Would would be better for one servo to run a 5-Blade head: more Speed or Torque?

I should upgrade servos anyhow, so should I outfit it with:

DS8711 ULTRA TORQUE SERVO
Specs
Type: Digital Ultra Torque
Torque: 347 oz/in @ 4.8V, 403 oz/in @ 6V
Speed: .19 sec/60° @ 4.8V, .15 sec/60° @ 6V
Dimensions (WxLxH): .82" x 1.58" x 1.56"
Weight: 2.36 oz
Gears: Metal alloy

OR

DS8717 Ultra Speed Cyclic Servo
Specs
Type: Ultra Speed Heli Cyclic Servo
Torque: 160 oz/in @ 4.8V; 196 oz/in @ 6V
Speed: .09 sec/60° @ 4.8V, .07 sec/60° @ 6V
Dimensions (WxLxH): .83" x 1.59" x 1.57"
Weight: 2.36 oz
Gears: Metal

I don't mind spending 20.00 or more per servo, if it will actually provide better flying ability for my usage (as an example from the 9252 vs 8717).

Thanks!

[Red-Rx7]

Having some small delays in the project. My Raptor Titan I purchased came, but it wasn't a Raptor. Rather, it was a small electric Falcon 3d. It was a mistake by FedEx, and it looks like the problem is going to be resolved just adds additional delays.

My original goal was to have the Pod/Boom flying this weekend so I could start getting some basic things resolved. No worries though, I should have it here this week.

I have been thinking about weight requirements for this helicopter, and was hoping another TT 530 builder (i.e. Rodan or someone :) ) could actually weigh the helicopter fully loaded (full of fuel). Since I am going with a 5-Blade scale head, the three extra blades will account for about .75-1.00 lbs of additional weight.

Once thing I was also wanting to do was put in the .60 fuel tank into Raptor 50 frame. This will again me about 110cc (3.72 oz) of additional fuel, and if I balance out one additional header tank, I can also gain 2 more oz of fuel capacity. Roughly speaking, I could add 5.75 oz of fuel - or just about 50% more than what the typical Raptor could carry. If I had been averaging about 12 minutes per flight, I figure I can get at least another 6 - 7 minutes out of it. But, the weight is the concerning part.

Thoughts?

[Rodan]

Mine is 11lbs without fuel.

I wouldn't worry too much about fuel capacity. I fly for around 8 minutes, and land with a little fuel in the main tank, and a full header tank. I'm usually ready to land by that time anyway. I really don't think flying a heli for 20 min would be that enjoyable, the level of concentration required can be pretty fatiguing. As long as I can get a good scale routine in, I'm happy.

[joeb]

I got the 5 blade head, swash and follower from Century for my 530 and ordered what I thought was the swash as pictured on the web site.
Only to find when it arrived that they now ship CCPM swash as standard.

So I now my frame did not match, then there was the hassle and cost of sending it back to the USA so I decided to buy a new frame. I sold my first born and got a Zero G. Absolutely a work of art, an overkill in a scale but I love it. Some mods needed to extend the rear of the frame to match the 530 mounting points but some 2.5mm carbon sheet does the job just fine.

I've installed a YS50 and a CY pipe and theres a bit "fitting" required but not too bad.

I suggest you pull the swash apart when it comes mine had NO grub screws holding the inner ring onto the bearing (Chinese quality control) and the follower was missing the grub screw that locks the shaft to the arm.

I am still not convinced that the offset follower is the correct one as it appears ther angles are all wrong, I have a center mounted one and at this stage would appear to be the one I'll use but I will decide once I get to do the phasing.

I'm running 9252's all round.

I'll post some pics later
Cheers
Joe

[Red-Rx7]

Just an update.

The shipping and vendor gods truely do not like me very much. The Titan I purchased ended up going across the country on a FedEx mistake, and it took a lot of interaction with them to get it corrected. I now have a new tracking number, and I should have it by this Friday.

Today (1/23/08), I did receive the TT MD530 body kit. I opened it up for an initial peek at it, and it is quite large - larger than what I was expecting for a .50 size bird. In hindsight, if I would have purchased the Xero-G CCPM frame kit, it looks like I would actually have enough room for a scale cockpit in the front.

Tomorrow (1/24/08), it will be a busy day receiving parts. The following will be coming from UPS/FedEx/USPS:

- Century 5-Blade head
- Century 5-Blade 90o Swashplate
- Century Follower
- MRC Superbrain 989 charger
- 2000 MAH Li-Ion battery for my 9303
- Samsung 10.1MP Digital Camera

In addition, I have also ordered 4 brand new JR 8717 servos.

The Samsung 10.1MP Digital Camera I picked up off of Woot.com on an impulse buy. I have a Cannon Digital Video Camera, but it only offers 2.0 mexa-pixel resolution; which isn't that great. Here was the woot buy: http://www.woot.com/Forums/ViewPost.aspx?PostID=1897899

I figure this would be a good camera to do the project build documentation with. Finally, I mostly finished my workshop area to start the build. Once the camera comes tomorrow, I will take pictures of all the parts and workshop area.

Mike

[copterdoctor]

sounds like a very adventurous project. keep us posted. that is a nice pic of the 500.

[Red-Rx7]

sounds like a very adventurous project. keep us posted. that is a nice pic of the 500.

Thanks! I like to take on adventurous tasks (i.e. 20b in my FD3S) - which I am sure you would appreciate; but didn't have the funding for a larger scale project with this bird. Being that this is technically my "first" scale project, we will see how it goes. :)

I just got a bunch of stuff in. I plan on taking some pictures here shortly with the new camera!

Mike

[Red-Rx7]

Here are some initial pictures.

Click on the picture for a much higher resolution.

Workshop:







Charger:



Scale 5-Blade Head:













Fuse:






NOTE: This is the wall thickness of the fuse on the front part... Feels pretty thin...

[joeb]

Mike
"Ah a man with a new camera"
Like your work space, very neat
Mine looks like an atom bomb has gone off in it
It will be good to compare notes as we build
I've got the mechanics just about finished, just trying to get the CCPM swash, Helicommand -Tx to play ball with me - lots of fun
Cheers
Joe

[copterdoctor]

my workshop looked that nice when i first movedinto my house. now it looks like the a bomb went off in there too. i like your collection of very necessary tools. the 5 bladed heads sure do bring off the scale effect on those birds, especially when they are sitting still.

[Red-Rx7]

Mike
"Ah a man with a new camera"
Like your work space, very neat
Mine looks like an atom bomb has gone off in it
It will be good to compare notes as we build
I've got the mechanics just about finished, just trying to get the CCPM swash, Helicommand -Tx to play ball with me - lots of fun
Cheers
Joe

Joe,

Yep! I am photo-friendly with the new camera. It works great. Those large pictures (if you click on them) are 3648X2736 resolution!

The workshop was pretty, and noticed I took pictures before I really started to unpack. :)

You need to go start your build thread and be "photo-friendly" yourself. You have a kick-ass frame which will allow you to possibily build a front-cockpit. :) *nudge nudge*

Speaking of the HeliCommand, I am currently torn between that and going with Joel's Helitronix. It would be about 300 more for the HeliCommand, but the little bit of piece of mind for some flight stability sounds very nice.. If weather holds out, I am going to check out the 3d version on a gasser this weekend.

my workshop looked that nice when i first movedinto my house. now it looks like the a bomb went off in there too. i like your collection of very necessary tools. the 5 bladed heads sure do bring off the scale effect on those birds, especially when they are sitting still.

I have a bunch more tools I need to bring down from the garage, along with picking up some new ones. I got a few of the big stuff out of the way, but still have to bring down my smaller air-compressor and go through my main toolset (primarily automotive) to figure out what would be nice to have here.

As you can see, the little workshop is my furness room in my finished basement. I was going to make a work area in my garage, but it gets too cold in the winter time in Kansas. Here, it is nice and warm!

In regards to the 5 blade heads, yeah, they look great. In looking at yours, I couldn't imagine seeing a flybar setup with all the other great detail put into the helicopter itself!

[Red-Rx7]

Small project snafu: I started to build the Century 5-Blade head unit onto the main shaft, and get the mechanics ready so that electronics could be installed, only to find I am missing a clamping collar on the pre-build inventory check. This piece:



I spoke with Saul over at Century before they closed, and they are going to ship one out to me tomorrow. They custom built the head for me, and it was accidently left out of the box. No big deal, and Saul & Century took care of me - Thanks! I also noticed that the head-buttons don't come with the main unit (something I overlooked before), so I purchased one of those as well.

As mentioned before, I need to hunker down and really figure out if I want the HeliCommand unit or go with the proven Helitronix setup.. ugh!

[Christopher J]

To address the thinness of the fuse and help strengthen it sand the inside with 100 grit dry paper, blow out, and clean with something like acetone. Brush in some thinned 30 minute epoxy and lay in some glass cloth. I did this on one of my fuses where the glass was thin and weak feeling using two layers of cloth. It was still light but a heck of a lot stronger.

[Rodan]

It feels very thin and flimsy now because it's just the bare shell. Once you get the mechs in and the windows on it will be fine. Don't worry about it!